Why don’t you guys get this through your heads?
Pardon = to release (a person) from punishment; exempt from penalty: a convicted criminal who was pardoned by the governor. 2. To let (an offense) pass without punishment
How does that translate into having to pay fines, having to leave the country to apply for legal residency and having to pay back taxes??
Answer:
Thank You Mix. Hopefully you educated some people here today. Let's see what other argument they'll put forth. Oh I know... "Illegal means Illegal". Genius.NOT!
EDIT:
How can u know what people want Micky? Did you ask all of them?
Because they have their heads so far up their *sses.
Two good disses above me.
They are blinded by conservative republicanism which should be a mental illness.
How do you feel about all those violators who drank during Prohibition? Should they have been charged with crimes after Prohibition was repealed? I say give amnesty and let's move on.
Is it or is it not a deal billions of poor in the world would jump at were they given a chance?
If so, it is rewarding those who broke the law, not merely amnesty which assumes you 'make it good' (as tax amnesty relieves you of penalty but still requires you to pay the original tax, and library amnesty means return the book without fines.)
It may not be amnesty, but it is a reward.
However, the main point is the impacts already suffered by American children in overcrowded American schools and by our own people in thier own country, and the much greater impact that would occur if this bill is passed.
Call it what you will.
First off,most don't want residency,they want the indefinite temporary status. If we look at the meaning indefinite, it means having no exact limits. Therefore they could stay here forever,not having to leave the country and pay nothing really.
That is amnesty,get it through your head.
jeter,you stalking me again? Look i'm flattered by all your attention but you don't have the right equipment for me if you know what I mean but i'm sure yahoo has a lesbian area you can try. Good luck hon!
Because it is a "tweaked" version with restrictions that they do not want to call amnesty. The border should have already been protected to begin with after the amnesty 20 years ago. How can the government promise us anything when nothing is fulfilled?
We know what the defintion of amnesty is, we just call it that because this is what it reminds us of, and we will have the same outcome regardless. Also, people are being rewarded for committing a crime.
I agree with Dar.
BTW, why can't YOU guys get it through YOUR heads?
American citizens don't trust or believe anything the government says about the bill. We have immigration laws ALREADY on the books that are NOT being enforced.
Most of us have memories from 1986, when the last amnesty was granted...all kinds of promises were made about border security and enforcing our laws...Nothing happened except the amnesty part.
American citizens wants border security FIRST. Build the fence that's been "approved" already that's now in limbo. Prosecute employers hiring illegal aliens FIRST.
Anything leading to amnesty for illegal aliens AHEAD of people attempting to immigrate here legally STINKS...period.
If we want to legalize anyone, make it those following our laws to immigrate here.
EDIT Those opposing this bill and/or amnesty, keep pressure on the politicians in anyway you can. Pro-illegal supporters are not going change their minds, no matter how much logic you throw at them, they have their own agenda. The people have already spoken and the last time the bill was up for approval, it was stalled, mostly because of AMERICAN CITIZENS letting their voice be heard, but it's not gone yet. Phone calls, letters, speaking in person...anything you can do to oppose the bill.
It's amnesty...period.
I can put lipstick on a pig and say it's a prettier pig, but at the end of the day all I really still have is a pig with greasy crap on its lips.
This bill is a pig and not calling it what it is (AMNESTY) is still just putting lipstick on it. Over half of your Senators are calling this piece of trash amnesty.
Your words:
"Amnesty = the act of an authority (as a government) by which 'pardon' is granted to a large group of individuals."
This bill meets the criteria you yourself posted.
It is an amnesty because the "penalties" will never be paid. They are only included to fool people like you into believing this is not an amnesty.
From VDARE:
Amazingly there still seems to be some debate about whether this bill is an Amnesty bill. Let there be no equivocation. This is Instant Amnesty, pure and simple for essentially every illegal alien in the US and every illegal who gets in for the next year or two. Indeed, the drafters of this legislation make it very clear that Amnesty is the primary (really only) goal of this bill. The very first sentence (I am not kidding) states that the Instant Amnesty is not subject to any "triggers" or other delays. Section 601(h) which defines the Amnesty makes it clear that there are no fines, penalties, etc. associated with the Instant Amnesty. That's right, none at all.
To be precise 601(h) gives each and every illegal alien (with fraudulent documentation, that means all of them) immediate and free "probationary status" entitling them to live and work in the US. At some point, "probationary status" expires and the now-legal alien has to convert to "Z-nonimmigrant" status and pay a fine of $1000 (only $500 for illegal family members, see 601(e)(6)(B). However, does anyone really believe that these fines are going to be collected? Or that illegals who don't convert are going to be deported?
It doesnt matter what they call, illegals will still get in and this country will go futher to hell.
I think I might faint. Someone who posts a question who has ACTUALLY read the bill! I agree, in reality we cannot locate and prosecute 12 to 20 million people anyway. They are here and most have been here for years, let them pay the fine and become legal citizens and lets deal with deterring more illegals.
Sorry, but the bill is an amnesty bill. They may add things to make it look like it isn't but it still is an amnesty bill. My head is fine, not so sure about others. If it looks like a dog and barks like a dog , it's probably a dog. Peace :)
You forgot ONE definition...what does the word "FINE" mean?
It means:
"A sum of money required to be paid as a penalty for an offense."
And that the time, they will be CLEARED of all crimes committed which is a PARDON/AMNESTY, so they can become CITIZENS!
EDIT: And you obviously didn't read the above paragraph. It isn't going to matter if the people did ID theft or even forged documents...they are going to have a CLEAN SLATE! Yeah, that isn't amnesty? Destroying a citizens credit and making others pay for their crimes. The $5000 is just a penalty...but the illegal aliens get a clean slate for anything illegal they do, but ID THEFT IS A FEDERAL CRIME TO USA CITIZENS!
Giving legal status to millions of illegals for a pathway to citizenship is a type of amnesty, and pardon. Each of these can have little or basic fines, and penalties or do not have to have them at all. So your argument is weak at best.
And you have the paying fines, applying for legal residency correct. However you are misleading when you say they have to pay back taxes. Not true. And only the heads of the household are required to leave the country to do this. That still leaves millions here in Americans country. That's amnesty, and a pardon.
whats the question?
perhaps call it the M. I .L. the Make It Legal by way of government thing. many of course were turned down or did not want to lose their own citizenship when acquired U.S. so what is needed is a dual citizenship or just not call immigrartion illegal just step out of the way and not try to criminalise it . need to look at sneak in argument and look why the reason has something to do with environmental degradation ruining farm soil so to emplace strong environmental protections in both U.S. and Mexico will do more than any government legalisation or amnesty. a combination wouldn't hurt but would be unecessary
It's all bull. Legally Migrate to this country no problem come here illegally and get out. Then we won't have to spend our time discussing Amnesty. Where do we draw the line and according to the outline of this bill I want to become an illegal alien. Then I will only have to pay taxes for half of the last five years. HA HA
None of those hoops are going to be jumped enmasse. The majority of illegals will just keep doing whatever they want and they'll only use these new laws to punish people they want to target or go after. The average Jose won't be affected. The people who are affected by all this stuff are people who used to get reasonably priced quality service by polite English speaking Americans and now pay the same for lousy service by rude foreigners with thick accents. If you want quality service from Americans you have to be rich and pay alot of money. They've driven down quality and wages at the bottom and driven it up at the top and destroyed the middle. That's what the rich and the politicians are getting out of this, besides a larger group of voters to manipulate. Amnesty, or not amnesty is all a crock. The only kinds of bills that would work are being completely ignored. Like English only. Or that one must be a citizen to get a job. As long as any kind of visitor or immigrant can work here, there's no stopping this flood.
#2. To let an offense pass without punishment! That's what we don't want.
Here is one out of ten reasons this bill would be considered "amnesty". Flawed Provisions
The following are ten of the worst provisions—by no means an exhaustive list—of Title VI of the bill:
A Massive Amnesty: Title VI of the bill grants amnesty to virtually all of the 12 million to 20 million illegal aliens in the country today. This amnesty would dwarf the amnesty that the United States granted—with disastrous consequences—in 1986 to 2.7 million illegal aliens. It is also a larger amnesty than that proposed in last year's ill-fated Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act. Indeed, the Senate's bill imposes no cap on the total number of individuals who could receive Z-visa status.
To initially qualify for a Z visa, an illegal alien need only have a job (or be the parent, spouse, or child of someone with a job) and provide two documents suggesting that he or she was in the country before January 1, 2007, and has remained in the country since then. A bank statement, pay stub, or similarly forgeable record will do. Also acceptable under the legislation is a sworn affidavit from a non-relative (see Section 601(i)(2)).
The price of a Z visa is $3,000 for individuals—only slightly more than the going rate to hire a coyote to smuggle a person across the border. A family of five could purchase visas for the bargain price of $5,000—some $20,000 short of the net cost that household is likely to impose on local, state, and federal government each year, according to Heritage Foundation calculations.
Expect a mass influx unlike anything this country has ever seen once the 12-month period for accepting Z visa applications begins. These provisions are an open invitation for those intent on U.S. residence to sneak in and present two fraudulent pieces of paper indicating that they were here before the beginning of the year.
That is precisely what happened in the 1986 amnesty, during which Immigration and Naturalization Services discovered 398,000 cases of fraud. Expect the number of fraudulent applications to be at least four times larger this time, given the much larger applicant pool
The other nine are listed on this page: http://www.heritage.org/research/immigra...
The Immigration information post by website user , MyTend.com not guarantee correctness.
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