Is anyone else concerned about the "mean spirited" turn the immigration debate has taken . . .?
Answer:
Frustration. And anger. Both sides have plenty of both I'm sure.
And the more that is said by one side just causes the other to retaliate.
I've said some very mean things, including "shoot to kill" (it's funny, minefields never occurred to me.) but I'm not a violent person. I think the reason some of us do this is that no matter what we say or do the situation is out of our control and our government does not seem to listen to us or care.
To my immigrant friends, legal and illegal, it must be just as bad or even worse. There ARE some real criminals among them and some who try to take advantage of the situation but I imagine it is pretty much the truth that mostly they are trying to make a better life for their families. It must be hard to listen to rich, fat Americans talking about mine fields or throwing anchor babies into the river. It must be hard working long hours at difficult jobs and get paid less than Americans. It must be hard not to say mean things sometimes.
I don't know the answer, and if I did nobody would listen to me anyway. I'm not even sure there IS an answer that will satisfy us all.
But for my part I'm going to try to express myself without being so mean. I'm keeping my opinions, I'm not going to change, but maybe I COULD listen a little better.
>>steps off soapbox
You will ALWAYS get a negative reaction when you start talking about forgiving lawbreakers, rule-breakers, wrong-doers, etc.
Yeah, obviously a minefield is a very bad idea, but shooting someone running across the border wouldn't be a bad idea if the incident was published worldwide and the shooters were publicly acclaimed as heros. We need to get the word out that you might die trying to cross the border. That will slow illegal immigration real fast.
They sure kill enough Americans,drunk driving,murder,then all those rapes and theft.We have a right to defend ourselves,to meet force with force,otherwise the millions of poorly educated belligerents will keep killing innocents,I question your ignorance on this matter!
The part about minefields and shoot to kill...most people don't actually support that. But then, if you weren't sneaking across the border, you wouldn't have to worry about minefields or people shooting at you, right?
Such hystrionics are typical of a medium that allows anonymity. Consider most of them to be rhetorical or metaphorical or simply hyperbole.
The "mean spirited" turn the immigration debate has taken . . .?
I think it's about time the American people stood up and took notice. How long will it be before the Middle Class is no longer here because "we" have forgotten how to fight for what we believe in?
Its called FED UP AMERICAN CITIZENS. Our voices are obviously NOT being heard. Now its time to do like my man Malcolm said. BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY.
The American people are PI**ED OFF by the INACTION of our government to stop the horde of criminals sneaking into our country!
It stems from frustration with our government and how they are handling this. The government (President and Senate) claims they have good motivations when its is more than evident that they do not (both from the past in doing nothing...and in that the bill does not do as they say it will and they know it...the governments own projections say it will not!). As well as their underhanded and unprecedented means of getting what they want here.
When there is no justice people get more and more angry. If this had been handled as it should have been by our government the debate would be much different than it is. Bush has caused much anger here.
I do not condone the mean spiritedness however.but I must say...I utterly deplore what our government is doing here. Our governments actions are completely immoral. Bush lacks all wisdom.
I agree. Most US citizens are immigrants or descended from immigrants themselves. Where is the compassion? I know that many immigrants would not leave their home country if they didn't have to because of economic hardship. Anyone who is on any kind of spiritual journey needs to really meditate on this issue.
There is always extremists (see "terrorism") in every group. This issue is no different.
The ones that recommend this "solution" to the issue are not serious about anything more than their xenophobia or racist fears.
I don't think there should be "reform" - our laws are there for a reason. We already offered amnesty to those illegally in this nation in the 80's. It didn't work - all it did was get us more illegal immigrants, and where we were supposed to "toughen" our stance with the immigration laws, it didn't happen. It doesn't work, so let's just move on. Round them up, ship them home. And then we take the money that is going to this ill-conceived war and funnel it towards more border agents and being able to make it harder to get in the illegal way. I think that $140 + billion will hire quite a few border patrol agents.
I don't mind immigrants into this nation - just so long as they respect our nation enough to respect our laws and procedures and do things the RIGHT way. Beyond that, TOO BAD!
The mean-spirit is the anger of the American people who have no relief to express their anger, and if they do, they get stifled by the likes of our government and Yahoo, to name a few.
It's a reaction. We have tried being PC to no avail. Patriots are fed up with being ignored and stereotyped as "racists" for wanting security from the elected officials WE elected.
I will NEVER be embarassed by fellow Americans, even if they don't always make the best decisions.
"mean spirited". I think its more like frustration... Each of our Presidents over the past 30yrs. have granted amnesty under the guise of securing our borders. The borders are still not secure and our kids are being made to take Spanish classes as part of their high school curriculum... I see their points.
Mean spirited people are that way regardless of the conversation. Pick a topic and you will find them ranting about it. Don't worry. Just be moderate and make the right choices and you will realize just what a minority fringe they are.
STOP the" ILLEGALS "ANYWAY NECESSARY if the government won't or can't (because of bleeding heart liberals ) stop the influx then maybe it's time to get a bit more sincere in our efforts to stop the "ILLEGALS' Tho I'd really hate to see it happen...
No, but those of us that want our country to be just that, our country, for those who vote for amnesty, we at home will not have amnesia, over their amnesty
When peaceful measures are ignored it moves to more serious ones. I've read multiple times that the fence won't stop them, they'll dig a tunnel. Someone will build a taller ladder. They'll come in by some other means. How do you respond when reason is totally ignored and you are threatned? How do you handle.we won't leave and you're just going to have to put up with it? That's terriorism to me. The American people have seen signs printed and heard lectures from LaRaza and Mecha who say they will kill the whites. People have gotten run out of their homes and towns in order not to fight but still try and find some quality of life where their daughters aren't leered at and they don't have to live in fear or speak Spanish to order a burger or get a job. This isn't something that's just happened. It's a cumulation of years of seeing whats going on. I think many may have said ok..just learn English. Stop this bi-lingual BS because it's hurting our country, draining our school systems and our own kids are getting a lousy education from all the cuts. But no! Can't even do that. They came out like gang busters hating America and demanding things they have no right to and the demands still go on. You dig your heels in and refuse even the simpliest of compromises and threaten more..what are we to do? Just roll over and play dead and hand the keys to kingdom over on our way out? I'm one that doesn't want violence. I will do all I can to avoid it. But there comes a time when they just won't relent with the threats that you have to wake up to the realization that we're not dealing with reasonable people. I know it's not all....but there's enough to be a concern. Maybe it's not relevant where you live but I know without a shadow of doubt.all H would break loose here. We're here, we're gonna do whatever we want, and you are to just get out of the way and hand it over.
I realize everything won't go the way I would like. But I'm going to fight to end for some things being mandatory. This is my country and my life too.
TYPICAL AMERICANS
NEVER PLEASED LIFE IS A CONTRADICTION!
CAPS!
no caps?
LOTS OF FREEBIES!
they work for less.
ONE LANGUAGE!
no exceptions.
BAD GRAMMAR!
why don't they learn english?
WE ARE SMARTER!
we'll do the jobs
JUST A BUNCH OF HOG WASHING WHINERS
Signs signs everywhere signs
do this don't do that can't you read the signs
I collect books by a particular author. He wrote one called "The Grey Dawn." In that took he made the statement to the effect that people are willing to put up with so much corruption and lack of action as the price of having some of the weight of their civic responsibilities lefted from their shoulders.
It used to be that a land owner was responsible for maintaining the road past his property. Now we pay taxes to have it done. It may cost more, but the average citizen is willing to put with the extra cost.
But, the book continues, when the price gets too high, the average man takes action.
That was written about the early 1850s... just about the time the Vigilantes cleaned up San Francisco.
The American citizen generally abhors violence. They condemn gang activity, and hate crimes for that reason. But the American citizen can take only so much. Then he gets tired of the price of a venal government, or one that is unable to protect him from crime, but rather contributes to it... as was the case in San Francisco. When he gets tired of paying the "price," or when the price gets too high, he does something about it.
Will there come a time when American citizens take up arms themselves to protect the borders of their country? I don't know. I hope that the government will take action that will eliminate the need for such violence. That action will not consist of making it legal to break the laws of the United States. That action will not consist of telling those who have broken the laws of this land while millions before them have endeavored to live within those laws, that it's ok for them to be criminal.
But the price is getting very high. One land-owner captured and held illegals until the authorities came. The illegals sued and were given the land. The farmer broke no law. He detained trespassers on his private land. He didn't kill them. He didn't torture them. He didn't take the law into his own hands. Because of the actions of that incompetent judge, do you really believe that trespassers--whether they are illegal aliens or not--will be treated so kindly--and within the law much longer?
The American citizen has a right to protect his property, and his family. I would pity the trespasser on my property--regardless of his color. More than likely he will have acquired a knife from our kitchen and been our bedroom at night. I was in fear of my life and the welfare of my family. What would you do? What would you expect me to
I had my home burgled. I asked the investigating officer what would have happened had I been home and killed the perpetrator(s). His statement was, "You have to realize that these were just kids... probably trying to score some drug money. Do you think your stereo set (actually they took about $30,000 in jewelry) is worth a kid's life?" I looked him right in the eye and said, "I think that's a question a kid has to ask himself before he breaks into a house."
I don't expect piles of bodies rotting on the border. I expect that a few morons will try just because they have been able to get away with it for so long. But I think the word would get out that sneaking into the United States is no longer certain of success. It will be safer to go through proper channels. That's all we want.
If that offends your sensibilities. I'm sorry. The idea that people are too stupid to realize that breaking the law is illegal, and that such steps may become necessary offends mine too. I hope it won't have to come to that. But it's up to them. All they need to do is to go through proper channels.
I cannot believe the day has come when people are actually trying to justify murder.
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