Multi-culuralists and other limp-fish- debate me on immigration?
Who's up for some intelligent debate on immigration?
My view is that it is totally unnecessary and a clever means by elites to gain access to a more easily exploitable labour pool.
Answer:
I think that in Britain it has much more to do with the implementation of a left wing agenda. The multiculturalists, PC brigade etc. (lets call them the new left) don't believe in the Nation State, because they see it as a right wing construct bringing with it concepts like 'patriotism', national borders etc. Their egalitarian mindset prefers border-less migration. What else is the EU if it isn't mainly about removing borders and the idea of Nationhood. I believe that the Government have deliberately lost control of our borders, because that is what they want. That isn't to say that business owners wont take advantage of it, as you state. Multiculturalism, is an unworkable philosophy, within the Nation State, and it is worth pointing out, that Islam isn't a culture. Moreover, aren't cultures best fostered in the country that first gave birth to them.
Broadly, I am in agreement with you, but, except on a very small and controlled scale, we have never needed immigration, but, as I have stated above, I don't believe that the Governments main objective was economic, it was, and is, political.
Yes, in part. There is no NEED for immigration. But immigration does help to keep prices down. It also enables pensions to be paid.
Before, in the past, which certain groups of the population remember as the glorious past, life expectancy was shorter. People did not live as long, there were less pensioners and there was less money therefore spent on pensions. But we have an aging population. A larger proportion of the population are going to be drawing pensions. Combined with a low birth rate, it means in order to fund state pensions, we need immigrant workers to pay tax into the economy. Get rid of immigration and you will need to either raise the pension age to a much higher age (say 80) or get rid of pensions althogether.
Next is prices. Again in the past things were different. The rich were richer, and those less well off, were a lot more less well off. People earned less. How do you think there were more policemen on the beat? We paid them less in real terms to what we pay now. As the price of living is a lot higher than it was in the past, the employment costs are higher. By using migrant workers, things can be done cheaper than they would be otherwise.
The computer you type on would be a lot more expensive in a world with no immigration and policies of buying British only. In addition, your wages would be a lot less as well.
There is only one country in the world that has no problems with immigration (also the only country in the world to be run on policies similar to the BNP) and that is North Korea. (Japan also suffers the 'curse' of immigration.) Lets keep Britain great, and that means making use of legal and managed immigration.
How is anyone supposed to debate in this stupid "answer" format?
All a person can do is post their idea, and people comment on it. I miss the old message boards where you can actually interact with people.
Anyway, your hypothosis sounds interesting. Yes, immigrants are seen as cheap labor, also good for driving down wages for everyone.
Even if it were necessary, wealthy countries do not "need" illegal immigrants to fill any gaps.
There are billions of people around the world that would immigrate LEGALLY to a wealthy country in a heartbeat.
All countries have immigration quotas for a reason. If more were "needed", merely increase the immigration quota.
So who's this Economic Council of Canada (1991)? I suppose they are composed entirely of Eskimos, Inuit and Navaho. If it hadn't been for immigration, there would be no Canada.
Nice try BNP troll.
I'm immigrating to Canada in November. you guys make it hard enough.
there is no class to move in if you are an unskilled laborer. you must fit into a category of usefulness for Canada.
.You will do for me! I agree with you in principle on all points raised, and I would love to have the debate but it would be impossible on yahoo Q&A. One point you dont touch on is the birth rate calculation for the indigenous Brits as opposed to ethnic immigrants. As predicted within 15 years indigenous Brits will be the minority in Britain. What a sad indictment
Come on you nationalists lets promote change.
We need both immigration - as captainstarkiller indicates - and emigration. Please leave.
I am an American. (my mother is white and my father is black, and my boyfriend of 7 years is half white and half Vietnamese, and we have a son who is absolutely gorgeous) What I cannot stand is the fact that some people look at me and think I am racist because I think all the illegal immigrants should get the hell out of my country. Does no one understand the word ILLEGAL. That means you are breaking the law. You come to my house, you better respect my rules or I'll throw you out. That is what these people are doing. They are breaking the law. They say, "They don't understand. We are good people. Why do they want to separate our families?" This is referring to the ICE raids where they deport the parents, but the children are citizens. The point is, you made that choice as a parent to take that risk. You knew what could happen. I go to college, I love my children, and I pay my taxes. I too am a good person. But that will not shield me if I get caught smoking pot. (which I rarely do, but do like to partake in every now and then) I will still get in trouble with the law because it is ILLEGAL. Not to mention that you have to press 2 for English, my kids are forced to learn Spanish in school, and MY tax dollars are going to support people who might not even be contributing to the pot they are so freely taking it out of. Yeah, there are a lot of lazy Americans out there that do the same, and I have always truly admired how some of these immigrants come over here and work their asses off. That is why this is such a hotly debated topic. I don't really know how I feel, all I know is that we are being taken advantage of. Not just by some of the ILLEGAL immigrants, but the business owners who lobby in Washington. They are the ones that have the most to lose if any decent immigration bill gets passed. They would loose their wonderful, cheap labor. And by the way, Mr. Bush, these people are not doing jobs that Americans won't do, we just won't do them for the amount of money they get paid. Oh man, this problem needs to be fixed.
And I am not a racist. Most of my friends are Hispanic, and my daughter is half Mexican, and very beautiful. But living in Texas, you are confronted with the issue every minute of every day. I love my country, I just hate the people running it.
You didn't bother giving a link to this report. However, I looked around on the Internet, and found an interesting article on wikipedia that coverd this subject and the report you quoted from:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/economic_im...
It certainly challenges some of the expectations of "limp fish" like me, although on closer reading the following points can be made: it is pointed out that "Population growth through immigration boosts GDP, a measure of the size of the overall economy.[9] It increases the number of consumers for all products, including housing, durable goods, and services."
It appears that immigrants have on the whole a lower income than natives, and that therefore they depress the per capita gdp of the population as a whole; however it does not follow that the average income of natives is also depressed - it could be that immigrants gravitate toward lowpaid jobs, leaving the higher paid jobs for natives.
There is a wider question here. We are all familiar with the fact that war can appear to be good for the economy - that does not make war good, and in fact suggests that our notions of economic health are seriously flawed. A similar example is growth stimulated by credit - if we were all good savers, the economy would collapse ("the paradox of thrift").
People should be free to do their best in the global economy. We demand freedom of movement for western goods and capital, there should be freedom of movement for labour. Maximising people's individual prospects seems to be the best way of maximising the health of the global economy and also of world society. It's about freedom and equality. If we refuse to allow people a fair chance, we face a future of chaos and conflict.
The Immigration information post by website user , MyTend.com not guarantee correctness.
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