Would anyone actually like to read about the immigration bill before commenting on it??
It does NOT reward illegal immigrants. They are being fined $5000 and this fine doesn't grant them citizenship. I don't know where this BS is coming from, but the damn parrots won't shutup about it.
After they pay their $5000 fine, they are issued a temporary work visa called a "Z visa". They still have to go through immigration, they still have to wait their turn, and they still have to do everything the other immigrants have to do.
They are receving NO special rights. None.
They're already here whether you like them or not. Hopefully the government will be enforcing the current laws after this bill is passed.
People will not be deported, period. You can keep saying it til you drop dead, but that's not going to change no matter how much you piss and moan about it.
Answer:
Josh, you make the point I keep trying to make.
Diedre, you give an interesting perspective. You state that you are an ESL teacher at a low-income school. Then you imply that all of the kids in your school are immigrants. Just because your school offers ESL doesn't mean that all of the kids are children of immigrants.
Here's a big misconception -- immigrants qualify for food stamps and other benefits. Nope, not true. They can get those kinds of benefits for their US citizen born kids, but not for themselves.
The social ills you are describing sound more to me like the results of poverty and not culture (unless you want to call it the culture of poverty). I can easily point to some other ethnic groups where the exact problems you have mentioned exist (leave out the cost of ESL).
There are many systemic problems in the US government. Immigrants are the current scape goats.
Tomatoes and Cheap Labor
This should make everyone think, be you Democrat, Republican or Independent
From a California school teacher - - -"As you listen to the news about the student protests over illegal immigration, there are some things that you should be aware of:
I am in charge of the English-as-a-second-language department at a large southern California high school which is designated a Title 1 school, meaning that its students average lower socioeconomic and income levels.
Most of the schools you are hearing about, South Gate High, Bell Gardens , Huntington Park , etc., where these students are protesting, are also Title 1 schools.
Title 1 schools are on the free breakfast and free lunch program. When I say free breakfast, I'm not talking a glass of milk and roll -- but a full breakfast and cereal bar with fruits and juices that would make a Marriott proud. The waste of this food is monumental, with trays and trays of it being dumped in the trash uneaten. (OUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK)
I estimate that well over 50% of these students are obese or at least moderately overweight. About 75% or more DO have cell phones. The school also provides day care centers for the unwed teenage pregnant girls (some as young as 13) so they can attend class without the inconvenience of having to arrange for babysitters or having family watch their kids. (OUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK)
I was ordered to spend $700,000 on my department or risk losing funding for the upcoming year even though there was little need for anything; my budget was already substantial. I ended up buying new computers for the computer learning center, half of which, one month later, have been carved with graffiti by the appreciative students who obviously feel humbled and grateful to have a free education in America . (OUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK)
I have had to intervene several times for young and substitute teachers whose classes consist of many illegal immigrant students here in the country less then 3 months who raised so much hell with the female teachers, calling them "Putas" whores and throwing things that the teachers were in tears.
Free medical, free education, free food, day care etc., etc., etc. Is it any wonder they feel entitled to not only be in this country but to demand rights, privileges and entitlements?
To those who want to point out how much these illegal immigrants contribute to our society because they LIKE their gardener and housekeeper and they like to pay less for tomatoes: spend some time in the real world of illegal immigration and see the TRUE costs.
Higher insurance, medical facilities closing, higher medical costs, more crime, lower standards of education in our schools, overcrowding, new diseases etc., etc, etc. For me, I'll pay more for tomatoes.
We need to wake up. The guest worker program will be a disaster because we won't have the guts to enforce it.
Does anyone in their right mind really think they will voluntarily leave and return?
There are many hardworking Hispanic/American citizens that contribute to our country and many that I consider my true friends. We should encourage and accept those Hispanics who have done it the right and legal way.
It does, however, have everything to do with culture: A third-world culture that does not value education, that accepts children getting pregnant and dropping out of school by 15 and that refuses to assimilate, and an American culture that has become so weak and worried about "politically correct" that we don't have the will to do anything about it.
If this makes your blood boil, as it did mine, forward this to everyone you know.
CHEAP LABOR?
Isn't that what the whole immigration issue is about?
Business doesn't want to pay a decent wage.
Consumers don't want expensive produce.
Government will tell you Americans don't want the jobs.
But the bottom line is cheap labor. The phrase "cheap labor" is a myth, a farce, and a lie. there is no such thing as "cheap labor."
Take, for example, an illegal alien with a wife and five children. He takes a job for $5.00 or $6.00/hour. At that wage, with six dependents, he pays no income tax, yet at the end of the year, if he files an Income Tax Return, he gets an "earned income credit" of up to $3,200 free.
He qualifies for Section 8 housing and subsidized rent.
He qualifies for food stamps.
He qualifies for free (no deductible, no co-pay) health care.
His children get free breakfasts and lunches at school.
He requires bilingual teachers and books.
He qualifies for relief from high energy bills.
If they are or become, aged, blind or disabled, they qualify for SSI. Once qualified for SSI they can qualify for Medicare. All of this is at (our) taxpayer's expense.
He doesn't worry about car insurance, life insurance, or homeowners insurance.
Taxpayers provide Spanish language signs, bulletins and printed material.
He and his family receive the equivalent of $20.00 to $30.00/hour in benefits.
Working Americans are lucky to have $5.00 or $6.00/hour left after paying their bills and his.
The American taxpayers also pay for increased crime, graffiti and trash clean-up.
Cheap labor? YEAH RIGHT! Wake up people. THESE ARE THE QUESTIONS WE SHOULD BE ADDRESSING TO THE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES FOR EITHER PARTY. 'AND WHEN THEY LIE TO US AND DON'T DO AS THEY SAY, WE SHOULD REPLACE THEM AT ONCE!'
THIS HAS GOT TO BE PASSED ALONG TO AS MANY AS POSSIBLE OR WE WILL ALL GO DOWN THE DRAIN BECAUSE A FEW DON'T CARE.
Are they allowed to stay?YES..Thats amnesty fool.A $5,000.00 fine?Big deal.And that will probably be cut in half because they are even bitching about that.These people don't give a damn if they are citizens,they just want to take our resources and send $ home.
am·nes·ty /ˈæmnəsti/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[am-nuh-stee] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, plural -ties, verb, -tied, -ty·ing.
–noun 1. a general pardon for offenses, esp. political offenses, against a government, often granted before any trial or conviction.
2. Law. an act of forgiveness for past offenses, esp. to a class of persons as a whole.
3. a forgetting or overlooking of any past offense.
–verb (used with object) 4. to grant amnesty to; pardon.
Sure as hell looks like amnesty to me.
Unfortunately, you don't have to be smart to be a hater. People on here don't really care what the bill says. If they took the time to find out, they'd understand that this bill will bring benefits to ALL Americans. But all they care about is coming on here and whining, acting like they're being "tormented" by undocumented immigrants. It's a shame, the USA is a world power but it produces haters and whiners.
It's an amnesty bill. And all your protestations to the contrary won't change that.
JMB
josh, i'm sorry, i hope you don't take this the wrong way, but...you HAVE to be one of the most naive people i have ever seen in here. if you think for one minute that ANY of the provisions in this bill will be enforced, i have a nice shiny bridge here in manhattan i'd like to sell you...CHEAP!
this is just another political trojan horse pal and if you don't, won't, or can't see this then you are probably an illegal yourself!
and WHAT is with this "they're already here and there's not a damn thing you can do about it" attitude? i certainly would not feel that way about cockroaches in my house!!! i would call the EXTERMINATOR and pronto...
deportation is very achievable and is not the problem here...political will to do the right thing is...
The proposed bill is bull right along with the Z Visa. It allows people who are here by illegal measures to be put ahead of those who are taking the honest route. So no matter how you look at it they are having special treatment. Plus, 5000 doesn't even begin to cover the rise they have caused in our taxes, medical insurance, etc. It also does not cover the damage and decay they have brought upon our nation. They want to say that Texas belonged to them first. This is true. However, if it had stayed with them it would have been run into the ground just like Mexico and they would be moving on to infest the next place. Americans are who made this nation what it is not illegal immigrants.
It of course rewards illegal immigrants by giving them something priceless and unobtainable for them otherwise (given their education levels in most cases) for the price of a coyote 'with frills' package, due only to the reason that they broke the law. Those who didn't break the law have no access to this opportunity.
I'm for fixing the problem going forward, then I'd be ok with strictly screened legalization (not citizenship) (note that there is NO screening prior to initial legalization in the proposal) only for those here, no bringing family going forward. However, the border security in this bill RENEGES on half of the fence already in the law and gives 'humanitarian' exceptions for all kinds of enforcement provisions from what I've read so far (and yes, I AM reading the bill.) Since of course 'they only come for a better life' and 'they have family here and sending them back to where their family left them to begin with would be cruel' I can imagine all sorts of abuses of THAT idea.
Where is the visa exit tracking system before they put in an INCREASE in immigration through temporary visas and put in the 1.4 million for the AgJobs program?
This bill is a mess and from what I can tell, they hoped it would slide through so fast, without even normal committee process, that the public wouldn't have time to notice.
NOTE whenever regulatory agencies and legislatures TRULY want buy in by the public, they draft the draft to discuss, then have public input, then refine and debate the bill, etc. This is an attempt to blindside us, and absolutely disgusts me on the part of our Congress.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but the bill does provide amnesty for illegal aliens.
As soon as the bill is signed into law, they are given legal status (which gives them many entitlements to things such as welfare, medicare, and other social programs; this is all they really want).
Then, if they want to become citizens they pay the $5000, learn English, and "touchback" to the native country. They don't "have" to (and probably won't ) apply for citizenship because all you ever hear from them is "we just want to work (not become citizens)."
Also, are we going to "round em up" and deport them if they don't apply for citizenship?
Yeah right, they already know that we won't.
So, this bill is full of crap!
By the way, as someone else pointed out, amnesty is a general pardon for offenses, esp. political offenses, against a government, often granted before any trial or conviction; an act of forgiveness for past offenses, esp. to a class of persons as a whole; and a forgetting or overlooking of any past offense.
These illegals are forgiven of the fact that they:
1. crossed the border illegally
2. obtained false documents to work
3. illegally obtained employment
4. did not pay taxes (most, not all)
Where in the bill do they suffer for commintting these crimes? If you or I were to do these very same things, we would have been thrown in jail yesterday!
Again, this bill is full of crap!
Here is an excert from foxnews.com that backs up what I said:
Illegals, once they come out of the shadows and register, receive a temporary card and eventually a special "Z visa" to work indefinitely in the U.S, a process that takes a minimum of eight years. They are not required to return to their home country (nor pay the $5000 supposed fine and learn English) unless they wish to become U.S. citizens.
No special rights . horsesh*t.
I am an immigrant and there are many others from non hispanic countries who have been denied their visa's because they came into this country and previously "overstayed" their visits. All you have to do is log onto visajourney.com to read their stories and what other "legal" immigrants have perservered in their "legal" immigration to this country.
ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS SHOULD BE DEPORTED IMMEDIATELY ON VERIFICATION.
Just the fact that they are here illegally living lives of lies and deceit . that should tell you something.
The only thing this bill will promote is more illegal immigration and insult to the American taxpayer. If you want to live here go through the proper channels and wait your turn in line like the rest of us ... if you want to flaunt the laws of this country like so much trash (that you are) go home.
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